Tell me again. . .
Why I cannot fall from grace? Is "once saved always saved" good reformed theology? I'm only looking for scripture here and interpretation of scripture. Someone told me recently he didn't believe in hell and that if someone didn't choose God, then when he dies, he just disappears. Well, that is CERTAINLY NOT scripture and it was just something he made up to make him feel better. So, I don't want to exchange the Truth of God for a lie here. I want/need Truth.
Another close friend expressed to me concern recently that it was hard for her to believe that there would be people in hell that God loved. I did my best to argue the other side of that, but, in the end, I came away feeling depleted & a little sad. So, I'm genuinely asking for a little help from my friends here. . .
Isn't hell total separation from God and therefore His love also? And does God love everyone or just those He "elects", His chosen? Does it go against God's character to hate those He created? Can someone reject their own salvation? Scripture guys, I need scripture. Also, try and remember that I'm still just a girl. So, be gentle.
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7 comments:
I had a friend help me out with this question because after reading your post I couldn't recall any specific verses. That troubled me so I figured I really really need to see these verses as well.
Regarding once saved always saved:
phillipians 1:6: 6And I am sure of this, that he who began(A) a good work in you(B) will bring it to completion at(C) the day of Jesus Christ.
John 6:37: All that(B) the Father gives me will come to me, and(C) whoever comes to me I will never cast out
John 6:39: And(A) this is the will of him who sent me,(B) that I should lose nothing of(C) all that he has given me, but(D) raise it up on the last day.
John 10:28-29: 28(A) I give them eternal life, and(B) they will never perish, and(C) no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father,(D) who has given them to me,[a](E) is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of(F) the Father’s hand.
There are a lot of Scriptures that speak on the topics you mention here, but Romans promises to cover them all.
Salvation: Chapters 1-3 of Romans shows the utter condemnation of all men and their complete inability to satisfy the justice of God by works. How then is a man justified before a just God whose wrath falls upon all sin? - Romans 3:21-31 answers this question: God justifies the sinner by His own free grace by appointing Christ as the propitiation for sin to all those who are called by faith (cf. Eph. 2)
Assurance: If it is not by our works that we are justified in Christ and redeemed, and if it is only by God's grace that we are held fast in Christ Jesus, can we not lose God's grace by our own actions? Paul answers this question in chapters 5-8 of Romans by showing the results of justification. The God who justifies sinners is also the God who sanctifies sinner, and no one whom God has justified will fail to be sanctified. Chapter 5- Justification is the result of God's grace, and grace abounds as a result of justification. Chapter 6- does our sinning then not bring greater grace? no, because in justifying us, God has united us to Christ, and by that union we are made and being made like Christ. Chapter 7- although the flesh remains active, it is conquered because we possess a new nature given to us by God in Christ, which battles the flesh and testifies against our lusts. Chapter 8- Paul is confident that because of our union with Christ nothing shall separate us from the love of God, not even ourselves! Romans 8:31-39 summarizes Paul's confidence that we shall endure to the end.
Election: Romans 9-11 covers God's election, and in particular His prerogative in displaying His love and His hatred. God's love and God's hatred are not like ours, because we are often led to love or hate based upon emotions. God's love and hatred are not emotions, but determined commitments to either accept one in Christ, or to deny one and place wrath upon that one's sin. God does not love those who go to hell, because He has chosen to reject them in their sin. Romans 9:10-15 summarizes this point: God loved Jacob, and hated Esau--He chose Jacob by grace and rejected Esau by condemnation, and He remains just and holy in both decisions because He is God and His glory is the purpose of His action--to display grace and mercy as well as condemnation and wrath.
Hell is a kind of separation. It is a separation from the love of God. It is also a kind of presence. It is the presence of God experience as condemnation and wrath. God is present even in Hell. cf. Psalm 139. God is omnipresent, therefore He is even in Hell, but His presence in Hell is characterized by His just condemnation and wrath upon sinners.
So yeah, read Romans. We are all deserving of God's righteous wrath (Chp. 1-3), we are justified, saved and secured only by God's grace (Chp. 5-8), and God is just in choosing some for His love and some for His hatred (Chp. 9-11, but esp. 9).
To recap:
If someone has rejected salvation, it is evidence that they were never truly saved.
One who is truly saved cannot fall from grace, for God's glory is revealed in securing those whom He has predestined (Eph. 2).
God loves the elect and hates the reprobate. God's love and hatred are not arbitrary emotions, but deliberate choices determined to display His glory. God's choices depend upon Himself, and not upon us or any other factor.
Hell is separation from God's love in the presence of God's condemnation and wrath.
I hope this helps!
Patricia and Joshua summed it up pretty nicely. I would urge you to read through the Westiminster Confession, where these topics are covered exhaustively and lucidly.
As for God loving everyone, that is a nice thought but it's just not supported by Scripture. As Joshua mentioned, that argument is dismantled in Romans 9. I would also point you to Exodus 11:7 in that regard.
Also, we read in Hebrews 12:6 and Proverbs 3:12 that 'the Lord disciplines those He loves...' We can infer from that that there must be some that He does NOT love.
And, of course, there is John 9:31-- 'We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him.'
As for merely being annihilated after death if one is not saved, that runs contrary to Hebrews 9:27 -- 'Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment...' (One can't very well face judgement if he has been annihilated, can he?)
Of course, the best advice I could give you would be to talk to your brother-in-law. :)
One thing to understand is that the God's love for His children (chosen) is very different from His love for His creation. God's love for us is a *knowing* love. It's electing and based on a covenant that He has established (see Psalm 22:10 for instance). Yet God's love for His creation can be described as a common grace. See Matthew 5:44-46 as Jesus calls us to love like God loves and love our enemies. God sends rain down even on the wicked, for instance, so God does love His creation but it is not saving love.
Here's a website that does a better job than me of answering your question:
http://www.thirdmill.org/answers/answer.asp/category/th/file/99737.qna
Hannah,
Here is the link to that sermon I was telling you about, about biblical hatred. It's been awhile since I've listened to it, but I remember it being very good and helpful in that area. There were also a lot of other sermons you can look at on the site regarding what your grappling with at the moment. Not an easy thing, but hopefully this will help.
http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?speakerWithinSource=&subsetCat=&subsetItem=&mediatype=&keyword=John%5EWeaver&keyworddesc=John+Weaver&currsection=sermonsspeaker&AudioOnly=false&SpeakerOnly=true&keywordwithin=biblical+hatred
Hannah:
Here is a shortened url for the sermon Ashlee referred to you:
http://tinyurl.com/3w5rm7
Oh sure, mister smarty pants. Showin' me up. I see how it is. This will be taken out of your paycheck.
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